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#1 Flareon350

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 07:09 PM

This is the official discussion thread for CCLP4 voting's Pineapple Pack, which contains the second batch of nominated levels by the community. Feel free to share your thoughts, opinions, and comments on the levels here!


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#2 hkn

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 04:23 PM

#2 Dense Sokoban
Sokobans should not solve themselves.

#5 Exit Plan
Block pushing with flippers on is nothing new. Past implementations tend to be repetitive, but expanding the theme into an entire level makes for a nice spatial puzzle. You must think about the relationship between each block and figure out where to build the bridge. Perhaps the time limit could be slightly longer, to be fair to non-editor players.

#6 The Genvag
After five blobs and an invisible-wall guessing game, I do not even want to try the rest of the level.

#7 Inverted Sugar
Relatively short and simple, but still quite fun to play.

#9 Save the Bug!
This appeared in the iPad port Will's World, where it was practically impossible with touchscreen controls. On a computer with a keyboard, it works very well. Similar to Bug Arranging (CCLP3 #141) but simpler in concept and execution, which increases its appeal to players less interested in melee levels (like me).

#10 Mixing
Cloning many blobs to explode bombs? Dodging fire on force floors? Luring a teeth onto a blue button when you can see neither? No. Just no.

#12 The Day the World Was Supposed to End
Starts with a cute hint and soon becomes addictive, with constant interaction with monsters that almost gets too close for comfort, but never feels luck-based and always requires (sometimes creative) thinking. The recessed wall under the block at [6, 6] is invalid, but this is a minor quibble that can easily be fixed if the level makes the final cut (and I hope it does).

#15 Falling
Interesting concept, but practically impossible.

#18 Slapstick Tragedy
That a level with unavoidable random force floors leading to fire made it into voting is indeed a tragedy.

#21 Dept 42
Most Sokoban implementations allow the player to see the entire level at once (no matter how large it is) and undo their last few moves (in case they accidentally press the wrong key), to keep the focus on figuring out the puzzle. Without these two features, such large Sokoban levels in Chip's Challenge can be very tedious (even if the puzzle is easy). Although I enjoyed this, players who are less into Sokoban may not.

#22 Escalators
Such force floor levels just make me giddy.

#26 Loading Crates
This is better than #21 as it is less tedious and uses other tiles (such as force floors) to enhance the puzzle beyond a pure Sokoban.

#27 Optical Delusion
A failed attempt to copy Triple Maze (CCLP3 #115). Solved it on my first try.

#28 Block Parking
At first, I thought this level would be repetitive, but turns out that the nails and partial posting were fun to figure out. The blocks sliding on ice (especially the one after the thief) led to several annoying deaths, but Slide Delay (I think) made those not too difficult.

#29 Under Pressure
CCLP4 will need some short melee levels and this is among the better candidates. It certainly set my pulse racing!

#31 Switch Side
A real chore to play.

#35 Lonely
How to design a bad level: Eleven blue keys at the end, with ten unreachable due to hidden walls, making the player repeatedly guess (with a low time limit) or peek in the editor. Place three blobs and three walkers in a small open space. There was one time where pressing the blue button failed to reverse the tank because a walker or blob was in its way!

#40 Construct-A-Sokoban
A brilliantly-executed twist on the Sokoban theme. Really hope this level makes the cut for CCLP4. The difficulty is just right to interest both Sokoban lovers and haters. I guess the room on the right (with toggle walls) is for Lynx players?

#41 Bugs on the Wing
Figuring out how to use the first bug was fun. The rest was just tedious.

#45 Soko-Thief
Thieves as acting walls to blocks but not Chip, force floors that require nails to bypass and reusing the blocks in each room make for an innovative Sokoban level that was very satisfying to solve and deserves to be in CCLP4. Raising the time limit would make it even better.

#46 The Room Without Space
Could the clone machine be placed within visible distance? I am still trying to figure out how to push only one block to column 17.

#47 Spin Cycle
Almost as good as #12 except that stepping off the force floors in the recessed wall maze was a frustrating, luck-based exercise. (Trying to get the first chip is much less annoying, because if you fail, restarting only wastes a few seconds.)

#48 Green Balls
Teleports leading to death turn this from a mediocre level into a downright bad one.

#49 Partial Post Me Baby
Why must I do the same partial post (with the dirt and glider) five times? It ruins what could have been an excellent level (the partial post with the teeth was pure genius).


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#3 Flareon350

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:31 PM

#12 The Day the World Was Supposed to End
Starts with a cute hint and soon becomes addictive, with constant interaction with monsters that almost gets too close for comfort, but never feels luck-based and always requires (sometimes creative) thinking. The recessed wall under the block at [6, 6] is invalid, but this is a minor quibble that can easily be fixed if the level makes the final cut (and I hope it does).

 

Recessed walls under blocks are actually valid tile combinations :)


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#4 Ihavenoname248

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 10:17 AM

#6 The Genvag
After five blobs and an invisible-wall guessing game, I do not even want to try the rest of the level.

#15 Falling
Interesting concept, but practically impossible.

#18 Slapstick Tragedy
That a level with unavoidable random force floors leading to fire made it into voting is indeed a tragedy.

#35 Lonely
How to design a bad level: Eleven blue keys at the end, with ten unreachable due to hidden walls, making the player repeatedly guess (with a low time limit) or peek in the editor. Place three blobs and three walkers in a small open space. There was one time where pressing the blue button failed to reverse the tank because a walker or blob was in its way!

#40 Construct-A-Sokoban
A brilliantly-executed twist on the Sokoban theme. Really hope this level makes the cut for CCLP4. The difficulty is just right to interest both Sokoban lovers and haters. I guess the room on the right (with toggle walls) is for Lynx players?

#6: The randomness is at the start of the level and there are lots of safe spaces, so it's really not too bad. The invisible wall guessing game? No guessing, just a couple blocked off keys.

 

#15: Avoiding the thieves can be a little tricky, but you can plan a route during the initial descent! Going all the way to the left and then moving right 3 columns is an easy method...and then the second room gives you time to stop and think to plan the next slides. In Lynx, the time limit is a little tight, however.

 

#18: It's possible to solve this level deterministically in both rulesets. In fact, that's the point of the puzzle! There are some really cool ruleset exclusive tricks going on in this small space, so I'd highly recommend giving the level another shot instead of dismissing it outright for perceived unfairness.

 

#35: The blob room is huge. The walker room is a little smallish but really not too bad overall, especially once the path to the blob room is opened up. The thing with the tank is unfortunate (but an easy fix), and the hidden wall section? A little mean given the time limit but you have to expect that the farthest blue keys are more likely to be correct. I'm not a fan of this one either, but it's definitely not objectively bad, nor do blob/walker/hidden wall rooms make a level bad.

 

#40: I made this. The other level in voting with the same name is better. You are also correct as to the purpose of the toggle wall room- fire allowed slaps in Lynx, toggle walls allowed flicks in MS, so rather than design an unequal puzzle, I made one and mirrored it for the other ruleset.


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#5 hkn

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 07:11 AM

Also forgot to mention #37 Forcing. The yellow-door guessing game at the very end is just mean and ruins an otherwise decent level.

 

Any hints for #46 The Room Without Space?

 

#6: The randomness is at the start of the level and there are lots of safe spaces, so it's really not too bad. The invisible wall guessing game? No guessing, just a couple blocked off keys.

 

#15: Avoiding the thieves can be a little tricky, but you can plan a route during the initial descent! Going all the way to the left and then moving right 3 columns is an easy method...and then the second room gives you time to stop and think to plan the next slides. In Lynx, the time limit is a little tight, however.

 

#18: It's possible to solve this level deterministically in both rulesets. In fact, that's the point of the puzzle! There are some really cool ruleset exclusive tricks going on in this small space, so I'd highly recommend giving the level another shot instead of dismissing it outright for perceived unfairness.

 

#35: The blob room is huge. The walker room is a little smallish but really not too bad overall, especially once the path to the blob room is opened up. The thing with the tank is unfortunate (but an easy fix), and the hidden wall section? A little mean given the time limit but you have to expect that the farthest blue keys are more likely to be correct. I'm not a fan of this one either, but it's definitely not objectively bad, nor do blob/walker/hidden wall rooms make a level bad.

 

#40: I made this. The other level in voting with the same name is better. You are also correct as to the purpose of the toggle wall room- fire allowed slaps in Lynx, toggle walls allowed flicks in MS, so rather than design an unequal puzzle, I made one and mirrored it for the other ruleset.

 

#6 Once you get past the blobs, the level is decent...until the bug cloning machine.

 

#15 I lack the fingers for such precise timing, but can see why others would enjoy it.

 

#18 Gave the level another try. The chip on the bottom-left was easy. The trick to the chip on the bottom-right is really neat. Yet to figure out how to get the third one. I think levels in official packs should avoid ruleset-specific mechanics, except under special circumstances, such as Construct-A-Sokoban in this pack and CCLP3 #16 Two Sets of Rules. Even for that level, the cross-checking generated much controversy (and the hint should have been placed in that room).

 

#35 If the tank issue was fixed, I would not penalise the level for the blob and walker rooms, but the hidden wall section is still terrible and the level is not particularly amazing.

 

#40 Will try the other Construct-A-Sokoban. Thanks for the heads-up! I am playing the packs in reverse order (starting with Expansion) so I did not know about it. Doubt I will have time to finish even five packs.

 

Recessed walls under blocks are actually valid tile combinations :)

No idea why ChipEdit marks them as invalid.


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#6 rubenspaans

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:16 PM

#6 Once you get past the blobs, the level is decent...until the bug cloning machine.
 
To solve the level you should go back instead of going through the room with bugs.
 
If the block room is entered from the top it's not possible to extract all blocks, so you'd have to go back anyway.

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#7 mmoraleta

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:53 AM

Soko-Thief (45) reminds me of Block Unpuzzle from "The Other-100 Tiles" very good level. Raising the time limit is needed though


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#8 Flareon350

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:10 PM

#45 Soko-Thief
Thieves as acting walls to blocks but not Chip, force floors that require nails to bypass and reusing the blocks in each room make for an innovative Sokoban level that was very satisfying to solve and deserves to be in CCLP4. Raising the time limit would make it even better.

 

Soko-Thief (45) reminds me of Block Unpuzzle from "The Other-100 Tiles" very good level. Raising the time limit is needed though

 

While I love Block Unpuzzle (which is in voting, mmoraleta :)), Soko-Thief is a pretty strong level as well, as it uses the concept of thieves as acting walls further, especially with the force floors in the second room. In hindsight, I may slightly prefer this over Block Unpuzzle now but both are very very good levels as they both received a 5 from me. As much as I love aesthetics, the outside random elements of Soko-Thief seemed kind of meaningless to me, they would have been better as just normal walls but that doesn't affect my rating at all. I do wish the time limit was higher but I was still able to solve it with 95 seconds remaining on the clock. (550 seconds might be perfect for this level?)

 

In the end, I honestly wouldn't mind seeing this or Block Unpuzzle in the final set. Both are very fun to play and satisfying to solve.


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#9 mmoraleta

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:13 AM

Dept. 42 (21) is also one my favorites from this set along with Loading Crates (26). I hope both of these sokoban levels appear in CCLP4. I think Dept.42 needs to be untimed though


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#10 mmoraleta

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:15 AM

#6: The randomness is at the start of the level and there are lots of safe spaces, so it's really not too bad. The invisible wall guessing game? No guessing, just a couple blocked off keys.

 

#15: Avoiding the thieves can be a little tricky, but you can plan a route during the initial descent! Going all the way to the left and then moving right 3 columns is an easy method...and then the second room gives you time to stop and think to plan the next slides. In Lynx, the time limit is a little tight, however.

 

#18: It's possible to solve this level deterministically in both rulesets. In fact, that's the point of the puzzle! There are some really cool ruleset exclusive tricks going on in this small space, so I'd highly recommend giving the level another shot instead of dismissing it outright for perceived unfairness.

 

#35: The blob room is huge. The walker room is a little smallish but really not too bad overall, especially once the path to the blob room is opened up. The thing with the tank is unfortunate (but an easy fix), and the hidden wall section? A little mean given the time limit but you have to expect that the farthest blue keys are more likely to be correct. I'm not a fan of this one either, but it's definitely not objectively bad, nor do blob/walker/hidden wall rooms make a level bad.

 

#40: I made this. The other level in voting with the same name is better. You are also correct as to the purpose of the toggle wall room- fire allowed slaps in Lynx, toggle walls allowed flicks in MS, so rather than design an unequal puzzle, I made one and mirrored it for the other ruleset.

In Construct-A-Sokoban how do you get to the puzzle on the right, it doesn't seem possible. BTW, great level from your UC4 set,


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#11 random 8

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 05:25 AM

In Construct-A-Sokoban how do you get to the puzzle on the right, it doesn't seem possible. BTW, great level from your UC4 set,


You get there by playing in the Lynx ruleset. It's just a mirror of the left room, though. It's there for the level to be equal in both rulesets.


Edited by random 8, 15 April 2017 - 05:29 AM.

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#12 random 8

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 01:43 AM

3. Temple of No Key: The block pushing is a bit lengthy, but it's interspersed among other tasks well enough that it doesn't really feel like a chore. The recessed wall/ice room at the end was a little mean, as you can't see what is or is not a good path at the beginning or in the upper right corner (if you already moved to the right edge in the latter case). I got lucky the first time, but i had to restart anyway because i missed something else in the level, so maybe it's not as significant as it seems? It should still get fixed, though.

 

Potential bust: you can use a block to disrupt the bugs. This is especially helpful in Lynx since monsters erase blue keys and avoid yellow keys (allowing you to block off the teleport). I don't know if the resulting chaos is manageable, though.

8. Collapsing Elevator Shafts: That's a mean ending, but otherwise this level's alright.
11. Do You Even Lift?: Busted: The second room can be skipped via partial post (so i guess i got my wish after all :P ).
15. Falling: I like this level more with the low time limit it currently has, but i guess i won't mind too much if that gets changed.
16. Whirl Blast: Is this even possible in Lynx? I don't see how to get the yellow key and still have enough blocks for everything else, whereas in MS, you can have the fireball go over the yellow key, discarding only one block in the process.
18. A Slapstick Tragedy: During nominations, i said for my own level, "Do You Even Lift?", that i wish i removed the second room when submitting this. My reason is that i'm not comfortable requiring knowledge of advanced mechanics in a CCLP, particularly ones that people normally won't discover/figure out on their own--in my case (and this case), ramming and block-slapping. At the very least, there needs to be some introduction (block-slapping had one in CCLP3 #16, but i don't think it's very good). What do other people think?
22. Escalators: This level is stupidly simple. Why am i so amused by it?
25. Anthill: The bugs in the second hub-like area have a nasty habit of clumping together and blocking off where you need to go, at least in Lynx.
31. Switch Side: The pink balls are effectively toggle walls, with the exception that there are places where you can slip by before they "close". These shortcuts are a nice touch that would have been nicer imo if it was actually required somewhere. It also would have been nicer if it didn't have to take up the entire map because it got repetitive and tedious after a while.

 

Also, i think i broke it:

Spoiler

33. Scrambled Data: The first two rooms are pretty much the only things i like in this level. The toggle wall corridor takes forever to get through, and you have to go through it 3 times. The red key/block section was about twice as long as it needed to be, and i died to the pink ball near the end of the level because i had no idea it was there (my first time in that area, i went down the left side first, so i couldn't have window-shopped it from below).
34. Caveat Emptor: I don't know if this is intended or not, but you can shut off the tanks with a timed tank button press instead of using the block by the blue lock in the bottom right, resulting in extra keys.
40. Construct-a-Sokoban: Is it even possible to get more than 10 red keys?
41. Bugs on the Wing: The beginning is the only part that's interesting to me, but there isn't much to do afterward so it's fine.
43. Skelzink Overloaded: A bit too much block pushing for my liking, but otherwise a pretty solid level.
46. The Room Without Space: There's an interesting sokoban hidden in the obscuring, unnecessarily long hallways. Here's an old (~7.5 months) attempt of mine to refine it:
Spoiler

47. Spin Cycle: The block at (23,19) could be one space closer so the recessed wall behind it is visible from the right, and the red locks in the upper right could be at least 4 tiles lower (or the recessed walls replaced with ice or something) for similar reasons. I had a lot of fun with this level until i guessed incorrectly at those parts.
50. The Moment of Tooth: In Lynx, Chip can step away before the block clones and therefore doesn't need the teeth at all. Also teeth + fire.


Edited by random 8, 29 April 2017 - 01:44 AM.

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