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This could almost have been a blog post, but I thought I'd post this here as it pertains to CCLP4 and really needs input from others too. There was some talk of a hardcore or veteran community pack that would collect some very difficult levels together. There is an audience for this type of levels but maybe the end of a CCLPn is not the ideal place to put them. The idea hasn't taken flight yet even though it seemed nobody was against it. I bring this up now as it might affect people's votes on CCLP4. We have a good chance to identify good levels for this project while not forcing them into CCLP4. I have a few ideas for this project that are obviously subject to change but I'll share them here for now. 1) The set would start off with relatively few levels, around 10-15. 2) Instead of sequels, new levels would be added to the set without changing the order of the existing levels. 3) These updates could come out about once a year or maybe two. 4) Publishing solutions to the levels would be discouraged. Everyone should work on the levels independently. (I haven't completely considered what to do with hints or helping others, but I'm sure we'd figure something out.) 5) There would not be a score board to track the best times, but rather something that lists which levels players have solved. We wouldn't compete in optimizing these complex creations, but just try to solve them. This doesn't mean every level would be untimed or you couldn't report your times. The set could possibly be uploaded to pieguy's site. 6) Each update shouldn't feature multiple levels from any one designer, nor should they all need to be the same difficulty. We want there to be variety in the set, including having a range of difficulty. 7) Compiling the set would not be done with a straight vote like the larger community sets. There would still be some way of nominating levels and possible other ways to influence the set. A few questions need answering: 1) Should we go ahead with this project? 2) Is now a bad time for starting this? Or is it the best time? 3) If so, do you accept me as the lead for this project? 4) Would you like to help out in making this, at least for this first year? 5) Is Veteran Pack a good name? I imagine the file name would be veteran.dat. 6) How do you see this interacting with the CCLP4 process? 7) Would you play this set? Any other comments are also welcome -Miika