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What 'Elements' -make a great level?

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If you have a very difficult level designed: as you probably know, the player probably has to start over and over again. It would be a good idea to NOT have to go through a boring phase of the level over and over again. Or, It doesn't take too long to get to a difficult area. You don't have a difficult puzzling situation at the very end where the player has to go throught the whole level -just to get to the problem again- especially, if most of the level is boring!, tedious, or one of the kind where the player has to guess at the right path, almost at every turn or junction, etc. Ian Wilson (thinker)

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Instead of being negative: A positive idea is- I like to "see" what the puzzle area of the level is; where you can see what the obstacle actually is and reason out a solution right there and then. I personally don't like having to go all over the map to try and find some hidden element off somewhere else. (although, I have some of that in MyBest37 levelset) I don't think that it makes for the very best kind of levels that can be designed. Let's see what everyone thinks that 'THE' best kinds of elements are and what they like to see in them....that creates the most fun to play. I recognize that there are other threads that treat this subject or kind of thinking, but maybe, it would be good to MAKE A LIST, just like we are trying to do in the thread called: "Name that Strategy". Ian Wilson (thinker)

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I guess a rule of thumb might be to put monster dodging and luck-based elements nearer to the beginning, put sokobans and boring repetitive moving-things puzzles nearer to the end, and generally have a decreasing difficulty curve through the level. But often I found myself enjoying levels with difficult puzzles all the way through, despite how many times I had to repeat the beginning. Some puzzles are great because you have an epiphany that makes the rest of the level easy, but until then you try many things without success, wracking your brain for minutes or hours or maybe days. The truly best puzzles can do this more than once.

 

If the puzzle is really good, you'll probably forgive a little bit of tedium in the beginning (but only after you beat it)

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yes, I would agree with the above post from tensorpudding, but it is even better to have great elements throughout the whole level....that is what I think makes for a great level.

I was ready an review several months back and the person was writing how he thought the level was really great because it was both aesthetic and at the same time, the level utilized ALL the tile pieces that were available -in that level. Good point!

Ian Wilson (thinker)

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I guess a rule of thumb might be to put monster dodging and luck-based elements nearer to the beginning, put sokobans and boring repetitive moving-things puzzles nearer to the end

 

I hate to keep bringing up the same example over and over again, but...City Block.

 

Ideally, you don't have "boring repetitive moving-things" elements in your levels at all...right? :teeth:

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It's not so much "boring repetitive moving-things" so much as "block puzzles that would be fun to solve once but would get really tedious if you had to play through them more than once"

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Maybe it's best to just make those puzzles their own mini-levels. It's a lot easier to skip entire levels than it is to skip sections of levels. ;)

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I still maintain that Ctrl-N is a lot less effort than fooling around with an editor. :teeth:

 

You still have to open the editor to find the password your first time through.

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I use passwords as an impetus to finish levels I don't like instead of skipping them. It does make for slow going though. I started CCLP3 back last summer and I just recently passed the halfway point.

 

I totally don't use passwords while playing random people's sets though because some levels are just a royal pain, or are terrible.

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I totally don't use passwords while playing random people's sets though because some levels are just a royal pain, or are terrible.

 

Yeah, that was what I really had in mind. I'll admit that I skipped all around CCLP3, but I suppose a lot of people refused to do that so that it would better mimic the original levelset experience...

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Here I come (except not in much detail)

 

Ian has it all. Good puzzles are those where you can see everything you need to solve it, and trying something won't necessarily cook it up instantly. Sort of why Cloner's Maze and Stress Fracture are amongst my favourite levels.

 

I don't really care for dodging/extra difficulty at the end, but it has to be consequent. If you have to play a 600 seconds gauntlet before getting there again, then an obvious no.

 

Generally, I prefer non-linear levels, where you can choose where to start without necessarily having to follow the exact same pattern every time.

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Generally, I prefer non-linear levels, where you can choose where to start without necessarily having to follow the exact same pattern every time.

 

(Y)

 

 

Good puzzles are those where you can see everything you need to solve it, and trying something won't necessarily cook it up instantly.

 

I'm tempted to agree, but then there's a level like Commit Suicide? that relies on the player not being able to see everything...and it's done in a clever way, not a "let's irritate the player with pointless guesswork" way.

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In that case I'm all in favour of it. I put it out there as a general rules, but some levels just shine without it.

 

I guess in a way that I'm worn out by the massive amount of tediousness brought by restarting a whole level by cooking it late because of something I couldn't have known that magically cooked it.

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Partial posts.

That is all.

 

I think most of the levels in TS0 that I've played that had partial posts were less fun than the ones I played that didn't, but You Can Lead A Horse To Water... is a very notable exception.

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Boom! I'll admit Different Barriers isn't that great, and Gimmick Isle Part Deux isn't as good as it could have been, but Lounge Act = (Y)

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I haven't devoted much time to Lounge Act nor have I tried Gimmick Isle Part Deux yet. I was thinking of Different Barriers and Slipping With The Enemy, the latter of which I'm frustrated with. My last interest was Plug In Baby which had me stumped and I went back to playing CCLP3.

 

Speaking of that level, I know it's supposed to be "Plug In, Baby" but I'm forever going to think of it as "Plug-In Baby" because that's much funnier.

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Hey, rockdet, If you like playing levels with multiple way to go after it, you can try Level 35: "Encore" in my levelset called MeBest37. There are others, too, that are like that, but I think level 35 is probably the best, and also one of the hardest. Ian

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I haven't devoted much time to Lounge Act nor have I tried Gimmick Isle Part Deux yet. I was thinking of Different Barriers and Slipping With The Enemy, the latter of which I'm frustrated with. My last interest was Plug In Baby which had me stumped and I went back to playing CCLP3.

 

I didn't even think of Slipping with the Enemy. Usually I only call teleport rerouting a partial post if there are blocks involved.

 

And there's always this video if you're still stuck on Plug in Baby (though the video is of a old version, but the solution is pretty much still the same)

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I try to resist any hints or help for as long as possible. I am proud of how far I've gotten in the official levelsets without spoilers, hints or videos. Maybe I'll make an exception for Plug In Baby, at some point.

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