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M11k4

Most difficult levels in existence?

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I must admit, playing through this levels back in 2002 must have been quite an experience. I could see levels like Exit Chip and Warehouse II being difficult without solutions, and I've always wondered, how long have invalid tiles existed in Chip's Challenge? Were editors made to allow them or was the game allowed to do this from the start?

 

I couldn't solve Warehouse II without a solution, but I'm pretty sure I did Exit Chip on my own (except for looking in the editor, of course... :)).

 

CC wasn't really "intended" for invalid tiles (hence why they are invalid... ;)). I assume they were possible since ChipEdit was first released, at which point people started making levels that had them... So CC was technically "allowed" to have them from the beginning, but there were no custom levels around yet... :D

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The thing is, the developers never programmed or tested invalid tiles into the game, and never used them, so that's why some of them crash the game while others just have some of the strangest effects (which make sense if you think about it). It just so happens that because the way the game was programmed, most of them have weird gameplay effects that can be used as new never-before-seen puzzle elements.

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"Commit Suicide?" is one of my favorite CCLP3 levels, even though no one is going to get it on their first try (unless they've looked at a map).

 

The thing is, you can use logic to figure it out eventually. The long run of chips in the corridor after the force floors are a dead giveaway; actually, I think the level would have been better if there had only been two or three chips there. It would have made the solution a bit more difficult to discover.

 

 

Edit: (Spoiler alert, for those who haven't played this level)

 

The reason for the many chips in the corridor was to make a second puzzle. The first puzzle is to get all the chips (since the chips in the corridor are not visible until you're in it, the player thinks she must get all other chips). The second puzzle is to get as few chips as possible, since you know you have to take all the chips in the corridor.

 

Maybe this 2-puzzle-thing could have been done in a more elegant way, but I couldn't think of one at that time...

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...I guess that makes sense. The two-puzzle idea is definitely an interesting one.

 

My thinking was that it would have been a much tougher "single" puzzle had the chips in the corridor not tipped the player off that the key is to refrain from collecting chips. It basically ensures that the "first" puzzle works only once. An empty corridor would have had me scratching my head a lot longer.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I still think it's a great level!

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MSCC, not CC. <_<

 

Well, in theory even the original Lynx game could have allowed for invalid tiles too if someone had figured out how to make custom levels for it....but yes, I meant MSCC. ;)

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Well, I'm no Epyx expert, but certainly the hardware was different and so was the software. It's my theory (with no evidence) that there were only capital letters available (thus the level titles), that wrap-around was a problem (thus the walls) and that the tiles and "creatures" (including Chip and the blocks) were processed in a different way than the "map". So, if I was forced to guess I'd say there was not a way to include invalid tiles the way MSCC allows, since there was probably only one "level".

 

Someone out there knows if I'm right, but I doubt that person reads this forum.

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It's my theory (with no evidence) that ... the tiles and "creatures" (including Chip and the blocks) were processed in a different way than the "map". So, if I was forced to guess I'd say there was not a way to include invalid tiles the way MSCC allows, since there was probably only one "level".

That's my theory too. I think the map only contained the static tiles, and the creatures were all defined in a creature list.

Somebody who understands Perl might be able to figure it out from the c4 script - since that can actually convert Lynx ROM files.

 

- Madhav.

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Wasn't it postulated that there is only "one layer" when non-creature tiles are involved and two layers whenever a creature tile (Chip, monsters, blocks) sits on top of a non-creature tile?

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Wasn't it postulated that there is only "one layer" when non-creature tiles are involved and two layers whenever a creature tile (Chip, monsters, blocks) sits on top of a non-creature tile?

 

That's the way you'd try to think about it when mapping to the MSCC file format. But in reality, (perhaps) there was only layer and the creatures were "positioned" at various locations on that layer.

 

- Madhav.

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